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Put the Peugeot 504 in perspective presents a particular challenge, he Sá vehicle with at least three distinct personalities or reputation I could easily write three different articles, but this might not go over so well here in America, where he there are still people trying to get on chronic fatigue syndrome CHTS Peugeot or post traumatic stress traumatic stress disorder Peugeot this probably gives you a good idea of how at least some Americans remember the 504 one thing is certain it is not easy to stereotype 504, at least not from a global perspective.
In Europe, the arrival of the 504 was a pretty significant opportunity His predecessor, the 404, is a direct evolution of the line of Peugeots 203 back to the first post-war, and shared similar overall dimensions and configuration It continued the Peugeot's tradition of conservative construction techniques and robust build quality but late sixties, times were changing, and the body 404 of narrow, tall and live rear axle were looking a bit dated.
The 504 represented the biggest departure from the tradition 203-403-404, although it still had qualities incorporated Europeans expect from a Peugeot, commonly called the French Mercedes, but with the 504, which was much more relevant than in the past because it was a pretty ambitious effort to compete more directly with the range of sedans midsize Mercedes W114 115 had a larger and much broader body of four-wheel independent suspension, four brakes wheel drive and more powerful January 8 l and 2 0L after 1970 hemi-head slope versions of Peugeot four in fact, the 504 will be the last new never RWD platform Peugeot, like 604 and 505 were both direct evolutions of 504,504 was destined to have a long life, and he has done more than later.
The 504 had an excellent reception in Europe, and was praised by the press for its advanced suspension and superb turn, often elegant design, excellent handling, comfortable interior and good performance at a time when sedans Neue BMW Klasse were decidedly sportier than the Mercedes and Peugeot, and were more competitive with Alfas and such, the 504 is rightly regarded as the only real direct competition to the Mercedes, which had almost a hammer waiting on its niche market 504 has received the European COTY for 1969, beating two other superb new cars, the BMW six-cylinder 2500 2800, and the Alfa Romeo 1750.
I vividly remember reading car, first motorsport test und the 504, and how impressed they were, despite their all-things-German slope are higher especially with the fluid and responsive fuel injection TI engine 97 hp, 504 had a unique combination of features and performance at a price that undermine the Mercedes enough to make it very attractive.
Speaking of attractive or not, the most amazing thing about the 504 when it appeared his tail was very unusual, as all 403 of Peugeots until very recently, the 504 was the work of Pininfarina .
The drooping tail showed a few other Pininfarina cars like the Cadillac Jacqueline in 1961, where the break is fairly small compared to the huge tail.
Pininfarina Austin in 1800 from 1964 is a variation of the theme, where almost the whole trunk is inclined downward in the Peugeot 504, pininfarina more or less split the difference.
It works better in certain colors and certain angles, it is speculation, but perhaps is the result of dissatisfaction that so many of Pininfarina sedan looked so similar to the finned 404, they wanted give something really unique Peugeot or decidedly eccentric French-instead of beautiful Italian If so, they succeeded it is an acquired taste, and I have come to accept it for what it is other than that, it was 504 a nice design, enough for the time, certainly with a little more rounded nose that Mercedes Stark boxes.
Pininfarina also designed and built the absolutely stunning 504 Coupe and Cabrio and you would never guess they were sitting on the same platform and have been designed by the same company their style held so well over time and were built from 1969 throughout 1983 above, the last of this line RWD and Peugeot convertibles These cuts were also the French alternative to the Mercedes SL and SLC BMW coupe.
The fact Peugeot also offered a diesel engine and since 1961 had further improved its Mercedes-ness It was not a converted gas engine, but a unit from scratch designed very robust Indénor In the pre-turbo era, it usually makes 65 hp later 70, about the same as the Mercedes of the time and was also popular as a taxi in Paris as Mercedes was in Germany.
One area where Peugeot Mercedes did was perfectly suited to the quality of indoor seats were always extremely comfortable the seats are of a later 505, to go with the tour but the filling, switching speed, and plastics are just never quite in the same league as Mercedes But consider the difference in price as in the US, gas 1975 504 stickered for 5610 adjusted 23,500, while the cheaper 1975 MBZ 230 has a high 9172 38000 adjusted ; a whopping 63 more in Europe, the price difference was not as big t everything, but Peugeot could never order Mercedes prices.
The 504 was significantly more spacious than the 404, especially in the back seat, which also differs from the BMW Neue Klasse, not known for its rear leg room commodious.
The 504 was a solid success for Peugeot in Europe, and certainly promoted the reputation of being a better than average quality car What about Africa, where 404 had already set up a huge foothold in the market midsize sedan.
Pictures often speak louder than words, so let's ponder a bit of a place where 504 have developed a hegemony near the vehicle of choice, until pushed in recent years by Toyotas and others.
The 504 was assembled in Nigeria and Kenya, until 2005, no less, even if it's been set aside in car sales, there will be 504s at work for decades, no doubt.
This is a car that, like all classic cars Peugeot RWD was not just a sedan with a long roof, but a totally different door frame rear entrance, with longer wheelbase, robust live rear axle, a four superb rear suspension coils which gave both a beautiful discharged walk, but could also take very heavy loads too We'll stick with the sedan mostly here, after covering all cars Peugeot RWD here and that one of the personal view of our writer on the 504 diesel car here.
But we can t ignore the pickup 504, at least not completely replace the pickup 404, these rugged beasts had a rear suspension with leaf springs, and the seemingly unlimited load capacity.
And then there's the famous Dangel April 4 conversions, as it posted to the CC cohort awhile, you get the picture, right 504 became the beast of Africa of the load, and everyone kept a go, no matter where he might find himself, or God forbid break but the parties are almost everywhere, and every mechanic Bush knows the ins and outs of a Peugeot.
There was even a double cabin 504 pickup, built in China, not least Peugeot pioneered early in China, establishing one of the first there joint ventures with Guangzhou in 1985, which proved not to be a happy relationship, as the rules of engagement for Chinese JVs really hadn t yet been established, and Peugeot was a very unfortunate partner In 1997, Peugeot has called it quits; about the trend in China.
I have not said to bring a fourth continent in the equation 504, so let's talk about the 504 in America in the fifties and sixties, the Peugeot 403 and 404 generally enjoyed a good reputation for reliability here despite the fact that the distribution network was decidedly thin Even with them, it depends heavily on access to a competent mechanic or owner But his secret that the 504 has developed a much more incoherent representative; even an evil in the eyes of people continue to listen for at least a comment colored by a former owner 504 What happened.
Probably convergence of at least several factors Let's start with the car when the 504 appeared, two things have changed that Peugeot and other European manufacturers, especially the French and British, are not suitable to success The was a smog controls and the other was the love of America and electrical accessories help.
The first emission controls usually have a deleterious effect on engine efficiency, performance and increased operating temperatures timing of the delayed start, etc. Combined with the growing preference for Americans automatics, power steering and air conditioning positioned questions dramatically keeping the engines under the hood and online temperatures.
The little Peugeot four direct origins back to 1290cc in 1948 203 above They all had an iron block, with shirts wet cylinder liners, and an aluminum alloy head hemi This type of construction was Peugeot used until the end of this long family of engines for several decades, and it is the same basic configuration used by Citroen and Renault on a large number of engines it has been proven over time, but usually in smog inspection unconditionally and electrical accessories.
Undoubtedly, these additional constraints have made Peugeots in the US related more vulnerable to problems related to heat Peugeot also launched the thermostatically controlled radiator fan, via an electromagnetic clutch he was inclined to break the adjustment, or people do not how to deal not know a big problem in the sixties, with a slightly stressed engine; another story in a heavy 504 loaded with accessories.
The result was too many overheating incidents, which often resulted in a deformed head, or worse, and there were problems with the joints of the head and sleeves, etc. that comes with the engine.
The seventy years were the most ever difficult decade for cars, in terms of new demands and changes US manufacturers had enough trouble dealing with them, and their reputation for reliability decreased significantly Germans and Swedes, who 100 were still committed to the US market, is much more concerted effort to adapt to rapid changes have pioneered the introduction of fuel injection in the United States, etc. But just never made it a priority French, and all related aspects of their cars, especially as adapted to the US market, has really taken a back seat.
The basic mechanical components of the 504 were probably as strong as ever, but all electronic Electrics Micky-mouse required, and the wiring and switches and sensors, and everything growing up a modern car were their undoing And when Japanese cars have the speed in the seventies and eighties, the game has really changed Needless to say, the Japanese were also 100 involved in the US market and has quickly what to be soon rise to the top of the reliability ranking.
Against any growing expectations and their own increasing fragility, the French fell in their reputation for reliability, abruptly And if boomlet in sales for Peugeot 504 diesel boom from 1975 to 1981 only adds to the potential problems, people bought Peugeots coming did not know what they become, sold to them by new dealers who did not even know what they are getting in a recipe for a possible exit from the US market.
Meanwhile, there are still very happy 504 pilots in the United States, as a commentator with 450k on his daily driver 504 comments the other day It is the owners who understand the weaknesses that hampered many 504s, and fixed, or working around them in the hands of an owner knowledgeable mechanic, 504 and 505 are capable of giving excellent service, but that certainly did not represent the face of the typical buyer of the United States.
A close friend of ours bought a used 504 like this in 1978 or, calculated from 404 my enthusiasm It was a gas model, with the stick, and a very nice American versions-certainly lost smogged their edge, and it almost felt slower than my 404, but he exuded confidence that the Peugeot to be able to clear tall buildings in a single bound, thanks to its superb suspension, which was even more sophisticated than my 404 s she had a particularly good experience with it, but it led in the cool climate of the Bay area and finally went the way of so many Peugeots traded in a Volvo, a turbo 760 in his case.
Peugeot 504 experiences tend to be very polarized; then let it be but he who has never had a lead or a attest to its unique tower and other qualities that were mostly not matched by any other car in the United States in its price range, but that's all quickly overshadowed by the following breakdown or big repair bill changing world, especially the United States, and Peugeot just didn t make a genuine effort to maintain and results that was very predictable.
It is unfortunate that Pininfarina Peugeot has decided to divide the differerence this rear end Austin seems furnishing, efficient and modern way, it seems hatchbackish all about GM car show the tapered tail adds to its sleekness reducing bulk 504 s back seems awkward, but it may have inspired the designer of the Infiniti J30, one whose rear end looks like a BUTT.
The single tail on that kind of ruined always look to me, however, I come slowly to the little pug I think one of these and I could get along.
The taxi company in Fort Wayne, Indiana bought a large batch of these diesels in the mid 70s to replace an aging fleet Checkers This was my first widespread exposure to these cars, they did not stay there long, I remember reading that the taxi company experienced terrible costs of repair and maintenance on the basis of your explanation, I could see that the long hours of city driving and idling with the air conditioning did not put this car in his happy place also, the costs of parts to the United States were also probably very high because of the small number of service cars.
I am delighted to read the comments of those who lived with them.
The company I was working in the late 70's used a car service who bought a small fleet of 504s They arrived in winter, so I do not know if the car had air conditioning, but the back seat, they were comfortable and always delivered me I was going.
One thing I noticed was that all had manual transmissions This being New York, I could not believe auspicious Way three weeks, I remember the 504s were gone, I can only guess that they are sitting at the bottom of the Hudson river to the west and perhaps still floating manager in one sitting strangely wearing trunks.
All I am sure is that none of the drivers never ever talk about Peugeots.
I have 79 automatic diesel napping in my garage in peak time, and I drive the weekend it is my 2nd 504, at least 5 in my family since the late sixties, I appreciate your opinion why these cars are iconic in Africa and the kind of hated here in the US of course, it is grossly underpowered and slow, but mileage rest 30s high impressive low 40s, the build quality is Starspot however, on the inside crumbling and even if my car is little rough around the edges, I often get thumbs ups to traffic stops only 2 percent of production 504 were American models, so that his car enough uncommon for french connoisseurs.
Article fantastic Paul You very well indeed summed A 504 was my first car at the age of 17 in 1988 and I've owned one since, and absolutely love I'm not quite a performance enthusiast and RWD Peugeot s I have alway s been really enjoy car more than I dD still my 1989 505 Turbo 5-sp.
A friend in college often drove his parents 504 One summer, my sister and I had planned to drive from California to Washington DC in his Cortina We had about 200 miles before the 4th speed is gone, another 2 miles before the 3rd report disappeared and ended up crawling along the shoulder of Interstate 80 at 1 payphone nearest I called my friend, and he drove up tonight with a trans scrap dealer and his dogs in the Peugeot saga transmission Cortina is for another CC, perhaps, but my lasting memory of the 504 is the headlight switch on a steering column stalk Not a knob at the end of the rod, but a rod you moved up and down, or maybe and dogs milling in the car while we were working on the Cortina, fell on the stem and turned on the lights and drained the battery we had to push the Peugeot in a gas station for obten ir a leap that we could not get that bump started BTW, it was a late 60's 504 with 4 speeds, and my memory is weak he had a column shift.
As Paul noted in my last comment intense whenever Peugeot came, he was kind enough to ask me questions about my experiences in anticipation of 504 CC today, I'm the colorful commentator quoted above, so please buckle and hear my story of an American in Paris wheels.
I had two 504s, both gas because my now blissfully-ex-wife was a hypochondriac neurotic with a real back pain, she asked the most favorable seating and the smoothest ride possible, or neck get out new Year Lily and I celebrated the 18th anniversary of our meeting, and all our perfectly happy, thank you goddess These seats and tower are great qualities of Peugeot and on a road to two lane country where everything worked it was a joy of driving.
My first 504 was out a lot of used cars in Ithaca I think he was about 72, bought at 79 was nice out to be half Bondo purchase Dumb I got to know the local mechanic rather quickly One day I drive a these country roads to a nice clip, and got the distinct feeling that the front of the car and the rest took different lines in the corner members before subframe were so rusty you could put your thumb through Sold the holes 100 Ithaca is where they extract the salt.
Then after driving test Oldsmobiles and Renault, we bought two years 78 dealer It was the car of a seller and had 40K abut like new with all the trimmings, felt like the ultimate car, very proud tried a diesel engine and merged so slow on the fast track up there, it felt scary No oil burners for me.
Later this year, we have traveled to Vancouver She had friends there and Regina A Ontario halfway engine started running more and more evil Store at Thunder Bay said it needed a valve job of 45K Gave on driving, she was pregnant of 6 months Yes we were idiots flew the rest of the way ended up loving the PNO and moved to Seattle through the car shipped to Canada by rail, and they put up front bad, not passable 25.
In Seattle, I tried to replace the brake pads myself I had done all my work before this car, at least that I could do the brakes, I thought emergency brake operates on the rear calipers and j 'I had a hell of a time in the open for the new pads I had a very unpleasant experience Haynes book.
A year later, in Portland now, about 55K, I had water in oil Took Rasmussen in the dealership, and they tell me the car was overheated never by me, it was a seller's damned has sleeves wet with engine seals cardboard at the bottom they had to shoot down the engine to replace the seals Unbellievably damned expensive that I could not afford seals cardboard sleeves wet for what.
A year later, the ZF automatic detonated the car was for a whole month damned as they awaited a new starting Bloody expensive Paris.
Finally, the fan starts to cut and threatening to overheat, that I let him do it so happens that the fan has an electric clutch with a brush on an exposed surface of the exposed pulley and directly under the damn water pump Well sure, it fails with the disengaged fan who thought it was a good idea in a bag wet with engine that destroyed the slowest overheating Remember this was at a time when the iron Detroit could tolerate these things don ' never got clutch 100 right, sweating temperature gauge on each hill.
Finally, the sand is out, he ex terrible woman's approval, and we exchanged the damned thing.
Obviously this car was like other French cars in that it should be closely and frequently and carefully maintained, and it didn t get in its first two years, I wonder if that damned fan clutch failed and he overheated.
So my tears Peugeot track Each car has a story, a sweet, a little bitter.
Although I still francophilia life is possible, even probable, that if the car I bought it hadn t been damaged by a previous owner of an undetectable way, I loved my? D 504 live France.
I had 74 white diesel sedan and he was the only car I've ever owned that I really liked These are rusty, slow and noisy things had a magic carpet Almost everyone who rode with me commented on the seats and ride the gentle long suspension travel has allowed water levels of body roll, but they were well cushioned so there was nothing like an American land yacht.
I was going to college in Charleston, South Carolina during the early 90s and there were more of those rattling around the city of Charleston is culturally and ethnically almost nothing in common with the rest of SC and there were are pretty not rednecks to actually buy and maintain cars like these or even more exotic at the time, I knew a man who is a driver every day was a Citroën DS and another that led a 2CV.
The thing about love is that treason can lead a man to be mean in addition to not being able to cope with the heat of Charleston, I too betrayed by electrical problems and left bumming rides while trying to understand why leaving work glow plugs a man knocked on my door one day and noted that the car did not move for some time and would I sell I sold my love to another man as wicked spirit joy I have ever known, it was replaced by a 85 Honda Civic which was stirring not love at all.
The 504 sedan is yet another of the 70 Id like to have a teenager in the mid-80s, I traveled regularly in a Estate- so the ride was awesome and very comfortable seats, as the vision in low rise, slim columns Carlin was great and the rear seats were higher than the front if you have a better view here in England are very few saloons on sale, although convertibles and tour esp Ï cut regularly assumes the saloons were discarded as they were decidedly ordinary cars back then- although it is what attracts me to them now cuts do not make many, even those with PRV V6 that was used in the big brother, the rather lanky 604- somehow not as elegant as the 504 has about 504 was that didnt really start production until 69- riots in Paris have slowed work comm ent downstream delightfully French.
After injecting 404 sedan bought new in 1966, my late father had two 504s the first was a 1972 US model bought in November 1971 to France from the factory to 2500 and imported to Canada in summer 1972 We have lived in Calgary for 4 years with this car and it was reliable in Europe other than carbohydrates agreement dealer Nefkens the Netherlands had never seen the emissions control equipment before they had seen intrusion beams in a front door 504.
He traded in a 1977 504 sedan in North Vancouver, has purchased Motors Classic and Thoroghbred on Marine Drive now a mattress store, which probably has a better car service that the dealer ZF gearbox on blew up two 1972 after weeks car next owner LOL 1977 was a massively heavier car, rode very well, but was very slow even with a manual 4-speed I learned to drive manual on this car, he had the trapezoidal headlights on she looked very well, other than the stupid bumper he got dismal fuel economy.
My father didn t like this car too, he sold it in 1979 and bought a new Renault 5 with the product, he was never tried again to get a Peugeot; the 505 was not to his taste or mine, the 604 was a dog at all levels.
In fact, it was all downhill after selling 404 Injection, it was a fabulous car, which was almost as comfortable as the 504s, but was much faster in both acceleration and top speed The only reason it s 'sold is that after 6 years in Montreal and acid rain capital of the Netherlands, the body was about 3 years of life left in it when he sold it was the best Peugeot, he said.
I had 404 since the beginning of 1981 and still have an injection 404 Coupe.
This example in Oregon has 505 seats and is an example Yuk butt ugly, but it is probably representative of the remaining 504s on the road in North America, unfortunately.
I fell into my first car 504 there are 30, he was part of a divorce settlement and wouldn t pass the PA inspection due to perforation rust minor hatchback I entered a 59000 mile car for something like 600.
There was a gas car 76 xn1 4 sp This car was a revelation to me how they designed a car that's bigger inside than outside, I do not know, he got better than our heavy 72 Chevy Caprice and seemed to hold the road as well as the VW Rabbit 75 flamethrower; don t throw myself on the seats moved forward and back on a gently sloping bow seat forward and raised him moved forward nt you need adjustable power seats 6 so uncomfortable in all positions each position of this seat was comfortable for every driver in the household the back seat was high that nobody felt like luggage there And speaking of luggage, this car has occupied the most improbable amount of imaginable goods without low point I was impressed by the way he was tight on bumpy roads around my part of Ohio nE While each domestic car I meet would display this cover shiver so common at that time, the 504 was strong and held the road towards electric rack and pinion should be experienced by every car designer today He had me to perfect the balance of road feel and stimulate prone sprocket valves leak absolutely perfect and despite the weight distribution was almost 50-50 varies with the engine and transmission and wheth er options was a sedan or station wagon I liked the way the car would follow straight on the terrible roads and road conditions in the deep snow, I d corner with enough power to swing the rear end and get my hands on the wheel and the deep snow steering geometry start to turn the steering wheel in the correct anti-steering direction I like stuff like that and Peug did.
Frankly, it was a very good car The first thing, however, was to get him out of your head to trust the local dealer prices pieces were confiscatory, inept service and rare coins but we had an old Peugeot mechanic the neighborhood that my small quirks of the car, what to attend, and where to get parts at reasonable prices We had a saint of a Peugeot parts of guys knew and still does his business if I had to rely on a dealer , I would have sold in a year, he was then smooth sailing.
Another thing to have a car like that, is that eventually they begin to find you, rather than the opposite so I had 4504's over the years two diesel cars and 74 diesel sedan.
I also liked Diesel sedan These are the seats excellence Peugeot Great, this manual, including manual sun roof, floor mats rubber However, there were four independent wheels and 4 wheel disc brakes, and tilt sleeves XD90 Indenor 4 of 50 end s money was put where it counted, in the suspension and running gear Unlike other here, I hit with this sloping tail, right next to the bat Damage he was badly rusted when I arrived and didn t do better in the 2 years I ran it ran like a champ all the way to the break, I almost cried.
Diesel cars have often made their best impressions of camels Highway Part of this is also not fast, I know to be able to use a speedometer temperature gauge on the highway, I just moved up with the trucks slow down the hills, and let speed on the way down it's just that you were driving Oh, and never sacrifice an ounce momentum Anyway be it how it was and I loved it.
I ran down to respect Peugeot 504 s, 505 s and 604 1 the turbodiesels were really better than non-turbo versions far so the 504 shares didn t in this 2 car was destroyed in the US market, mainly because of a lousy dealer network, let alone Peugeot mechanics trained and experienced, and more value to these parts 3 Peugeots were very well designed overall especially in the suspension department poorly assembled, which means a new can be a crap shoot you could go crazy with niggling problems, or you can stack free miles tons of bad witness the large number of high mileage examples that exist.
Which brings me to my General Theory of Peugeots mileage high Warning low mileage Peugeot with all repair receipts Top used Peugeots ever I had, it is true at the end of their useful life, are the mileage examples be found they stuck them long enough to accumulate miles 200K, you know that it was a good, well integrated and very well cared broken in- I had 3,504,604 family like that 330K on the carriage 78 504D, 225K on 604 V6, 559K on 604TD They were rough and reliable.
And the other points raised above about Clutch fans, some types of owners, etc. All this is true and everyone forgot about the windshield leaks and wishful thinking heating system and from a non-turbo XD2 in the freezing cold Oh, he always started better than you would he just thinks that the initial cloud of smoke appeared on the Doppler radar speedometer cables Why couldn t they use a speedometer cable that lasted more than 60K miles well, these are some of the questions I had.
But you know what I totally had fun driving them, they bore me, they always where I was going, and they had a soul dammit- Either you get it or you do t.
The first thing, however, was to get him out of your head to trust the local dealer Man ain t that the truth Why I did not find a good mechanic, I'll never understand I still suffered the engine, transmission and power outages direction, but the repairs would have been cheaper and I learned of the replacement of the fan clutch.
I totally got my 504 had a soul As I said when all was right it was a joy, but some souls are higher maintenance than others.
Wow what a great Pug history of obvious Pugophile I agree that in a pug, development money went where he had a stiff as a bridge body, beautiful and rugged suspension with four independent wheels and four wheel disc brakes as this 1968 as the above display states, if you can get a base 504 with zero electric toys and manual transmission, it is actually a great driver every day I had a a diesel-speed four total stripper, as my driver for a few weeks it was a fantastic dashboard, all chrome and bling that was great about it was his obvious tremendous strength that you could burn rough roads that have a drive axle B-body bouncing everywhere you could then quickly halted because of the four-wheel discs also, there was no diving talking when you made closed doors with a thud.
And yes, pugs have problems, some more niggly than others, but they are no worse than a Mercedes at the time and were certainly a lot less money when I was in college, around 1989 I arrived a my automatic gas 505 for girlfriend for 3000 there was a total stripper, even ac or cruise, absolutely no power of widgets integrated into the smog requirements in Canada, he simply ran awesome We two years and there were no real problems, except one night of broken fan belt This leads to a big problem Pug where do you tow you see on a pug, replacing the belt fan requires taking the radiator and a large part of the front is two hours of work a yahoo will Spuzzum ain t know how to wrench on your pug or what you want him so I towed his place of regular service, 100 free at mome nt where the belt replacement was done in my garage so I paid the money mechanic after completing the work that cost me 50 more Lucky belt to know people.
It was a nice car, but not one I wanted to tempt fate on so I got rid of in two years, he was still on the road a few years later While the 505 was a nice car, the 504 always felt more strong and athletic.
Other examples of Pininfarina broken and boot line 1800 favorite BMC Landcrabs a look at the 1961 Cadillac Jacqueline brougham the Auto Show in Paris, I guess they had to go somewhere after their fins stage sharp picture didn t load correctly; see next post.
Nice catch on the mid 90 Infinity J30, never thought before, but its rear end is certainly linked to that of the funny 504 also on 1976 1 2504 My 504 is a 74, but chromium 73 bumper with springs added , presumably to meet requirements 5mph I think the Peugeot guys are not afraid to change on the fly and I agree, you have a very nice 504GL, especially for a midwestern car, something for all of us 504 owners aspire to.
I guess that would cut end helped rear visibility You would not need a rearview camera on this beauty, but it seems that it could create an unwanted elevator, if you ever get it going fast enough.
I came across a rusty 504 pickup with French plates in my neighborhood last summer recently posted to the cohort My best guess is that he was bound for Africa through many export consignments of No car in the area many of them left in Europe.
Guess who like the 504 President Ahmadinejad of Iran auctioned ago his white 1977 two years.
An excellent review and analysis of 504 and one of the best ideas I have ever read in the puzzle that Peugeot, Renault and Citroen have found themselves in their products increasingly have become less relevant to consumers US and evolution of the US auto industry in the last quarter of the 20th century knew that the world would probably trace and follow the example of the United States then perhaps they could have approached the challenges they face the United States with a bit more commitment instead of throwing in the towel as all three were in 1992.
French We appear to support several times the brightness of products with beams that are unable to support in France, a challenge abroad is not seen as an opportunity, rather impertinent and inexcusable foray into private business and is almost always met or take leave a response in the US auto sector, with a myriad of alternatives able to choose, most Americans simply chose to leave it with a result just as predictable.
Today, Peugeot and Citroen in particular, may choose to return to the US They haven t and throw a laundry list of excuses today reveal themselves for what they are, excuses Just watch FIAT surely this brand had a worse reputation in the United States for the lack of reliability and could certainly say also that both Hyundai and Kia have also had very deep holes of credibility from which crawl they crawl varying degrees of success, but successful, they all did they succeed in the US market today, because they all follow three basic rules for success.
1 Create a quality product with the relevant United States with some form of USP 2 develop a dealer network with national reach and providing decent room for 3 Hire Americans support the market and the brand's advertising levels equal or above the competition.
Even VW, which almost threw in the towel a few years, doubled down, reformulated what's on offer in the United States, puts it even if I can not beat them, I have to join them and now enjoys a spectacular success with the new Passat and Jetta.
Bucking this trend are the French car manufacturers The French have now sees only following the example of FIAT would pay for them in the long term, even after sitting PSA and designed an agreement with GM This is too mind-bogglingly stupid provided I'm worried when they have nothing to lose at this point.
Or, is it perhaps the long term is quite long overdue.
Thank you for your comment, Ken It is good to read about it, I am a Francophile car in my youth actually our first and second cars where Renault 4 of my recommendation that I personally possessed the prospect of a French Peugeot 304 From my point of view, I think the French car manufacturers were reluctant to solve their particular problems Americans because they had a relatively easy way to be able to make hay with what they have built in Africa, Asia and most Europe they simply looked to the US as too big an obstacle to both the emissions engineering and product quality, particularly resistance to rust product quality hurt them also in European countries that require periodic technical inspection If they had taken the challenge, they would have increased their R & D spending so significativ e they would have been forced to raise their prices even in markets where income was quite low That would have decreased a significant advantage as, French mechanics fix cars to do again the German mechanical repair cars for the TuV pass or DECRA and the customer pays for I guess Africa, Asian side and a large number of European countries as French repair methods and customers were satisfied that therefore companies prosecutions took complaints come as the US, Germany and Switzerland and some other very serious as you said they were unwanted incursions the result is too bad because I really miss the unique qualities of the Peugeot and Renault of my youth had to offer I do not even have a chance to taste a French car rental companies has never offered either at least there are red wine and camembert a current French car more when I visit his family in Germany just a stone's throw Strassbourg None of my family and friends.
I use it to drive a car 78 504 t and it was the most comfortable car I've ever had the pleasure of driving I remember a time to notice how the 4 wheels would fall so low when the car would be on the elevator to the annual inspection, it was almost like watching a live animal suspended by the stomach when the hoist on a boat, speaking suspension travel of these cars had the soul unlike things of today bloated.
Nice Article, the 504 was a very special car my first actually a 9-year-old 400 Banger in 1984 I tried to repeat the experience in 2000 with 10 11 505 real estate family bought my employer, not so magical im fear Times and the movement of the industry I still dream of driving a petrol manual 504GL 2 0 liter across the south of France before I die well.
I guess I'm a little surprised that some people see the 504 as unreliable as our family have owned lots of them at one time or another, I must add that I do not remember any of those we had to have con or Electrics air My grandfather and great-uncle, they really decided the love that we live in an area with steep hills and windy roads and suspension and handling were pretty good, the first I remember mom and dad who have been in the 80s late and was our family car when my car fist was a mid 70s baby blue 504, the last left in the family were my great-uncles and grandmother s as they both died within the past two years, my partner and I bought my great Uncles its area, there were a few things we needed to do as a new radiator and a new clutch plate, but the car is 79 and they were home so I can not really complain, it has around 210000 km on the Spedo President pug club Invercargill said he had heard about people who o 700000 km ut of their engines, so I guess I'll take him for a while but I must also add that my partner without a mechanic is very handy and can do most things himself, he struggled a little work on the 504 as it is used to work on mainly old Holdens and they are just different to the euro engineering we also find rather the economic pug as long as the points are well adjusted, last trip we took to see my parents, we got about 8 5L per 100 kilometers which is much better than the modern Mitsubishi 4 4 I was driving to work until last year ours was imported nouv she Zealand and from what I understand was in Hong Kong again we would not get rid of it in the near future and its amazing how many comments we get out and about in it.
If you read the title of this post, it makes the situation clear enough it is mainly the additional requests combined smog controls, air conditioning, power steering automatics and other factors that have created a lot of the unfortunate experience of many Americans have known the background, the 504 was a very strong car.
The notion that additional equipment is overheating brings incredible old wives tales that everyone can agree with this analysis There are many less powerful engines with a ton more equipment that work very well Lack of understanding on how to maintain the Peugeot engines is the main cause of overheating nothing else.
I am very surprised that there is a perception that these cars are not reliable American cars should be very different from those we have here in Africa I bought 1979 504 gl with 180000 km on the clock there a year, it is my 4th Peugeot, had a 407hdi 308gti then and now a new 508gt I also have a Mercedes 230CE 1981 Peugeot is only 2 years older than the old Merc but it's the 1968 design dates compared to the design of the 1976 Merc suffice it to say that the Merc is a much more sophisticated and modern vehicle with an interior thats in a league above the old Peugeot But Pug ol more reliable than the Merc, it has not all electronics and powered devices such as steering the Merc therefore it is more basic car with less that can break, I use on agricultural roads near Johannesburg that is of the 1500metres ssus the sea level and very hot in summer, but the overheating of pug ever is a joy on these roads, nippy, very comfortable and very entertaining Handling is very forgiving and has known the quality of a rear end Peugeot which can slide around your command in an environment totally controlled in a predictable manner and the rear seats are a living room like comfort, upholstered in soft velvet the car also easily erase the roughest dirt roads with ease spares are available free and cheap here the only downside of owning a 504 in Africa is the security they are often stolen in South Africa and smuggled into Zimbabwe, Malawi and other African countries with cars driving on the right after owning several Mercs, a Chrysler Crossfire, Smart Fortwo, Renault 5, VW Amarok, Toyota Hilux and Ford bantam and well sû r the other 3 Pugs I can not conclude that the 504 is the best car of all, simple, reliable and entertaining just because of the interest, the legend, Pininfarina has used the eyes of Sophia Loren as inspiration for the headlights of the 504.
See the comment I just left the previous comment just above yours.
I had a 76 Peugeot 504 Diesel for a few years, back in early to mid-90s BOUGHT a beautiful couple to perhaps 450 He ran great, very few problems that I remember having to replace glow plugs and a support portion on the front suspension went wrong made the repairs myself car seats the most comfortable I've ever sat on, never liked my car I had I still the I lost because I had amassed too many parking tickets in Los Angeles, which had doubled in fines and fees and, finally, my car was booted and it could have cost me five times to get it out of impound that I paid, and I have not much money at the time my very sad, I still had one now, but alas, they're hard to find Thanks for the post.
I am an addict car models A grade, matches, brochures, posters, books, and 23 of the real thing, including my pride and joy 1966 AMC Marlin Sisters, the other drive sedans in hand is a Toyota Echo until they die; and place the cars on the same level as toaster ovens and washing machines not sexist, but true.
You just bought a 504 Dangel Unfortunately the gearbox and the front propeller shaft and differential was removed a drag if anyone knows, let me know please car is running in Malawi Afrika.
We had a brand new 504 diesel automatic sedan my father bought new in Brooklyn NY on Pennsylvania Avenue really nice car, but it came with a lot of problems and finally blew the motor We replaced the engine and the second finally gone too Sunk oil like crazy many pieces were incredibly expensive and difficult to obtain, he should buy a Deville Cup instead they costed about the same at the time.
Beautiful item Paul I like the way most people assume that this car is a selling point for using your terminology They certainly are largely misunderstood in Australia When I bought at the tender age of 21 years , my classmates thought I d lost the only plot that we had some engineering recognized its beauty and news My old 75 504 Ti is still the most fluid and enjoyable driving experience I've ever had .
I think it depends on who you ask questions about the Peugeot I have heard some say that his pile of s, while others say it is one of the best cars built there that I have ever driven myself, I can t say anyway My belief is that they can be well-built cars, the problem is that there was little if any services or service centers in North America to keep the cars running like they should I hope that I am wrong.
We had a 77 4spd 504D sedan when I was growing Pops purchased new and replaced Mom 66 Catalina wagon to jump on the train diesel works, I guess the first car I ever drove.
You can t begin to imagine the slowness was Quirky Controls- push or pull one of the rods for the Horn Rotate one for headlights seats where great and the tour was wonderful champagne-colored, velvet interior and a manual sunroof dad said AC a year or two years later.
I think the head gasket blew two or three times first resulted in a new engine when Mom continued to lead and to ask why the car was making strange noises The last time it was my youngest car brothers and he was the family car killer Perhaps it was the hidden agenda Pops bought a gas used 505 Night and day on controls and always within the same comfortable seating and ride the car worked well, until happened to my brother a notch on his bedpost Peugeot.
We used to joke that if Pops bought a Peugeot, he would have got a free trip to France and a medal under the Arc de Triomphe almost went for the Mi16, but bought a lease Lincoln Continental.
I really appreciate the 504s when I come across a sale I can not help myself; I must go and of course I want Even if it is a general Junker, I find a way to justify the purchase Most people I meet are late 70 diesels here in Vancouver Canada I have a beauty it s automated gas with some good options opening roof and manual crank windows, no air conditioning the best part is that it has the original bright paint and less than 60000 km, it still had the original tires on it when I I bought the car had been sitting inside a heated garage since 1994; it is perhaps my most precious possession Nice to see there are others out there who love these cars.
When I was a boy of perhaps 6, in the mid 80, a neighbor who lived in the building next to our apartment complex led a 504 A pretty blue nonmetallic medium, and I distinctly remember the great golden lion emblem on the grid I always liked to see that one in the parking lot, I saw very, very few since.
Yeah; how overrated hack plagiarize I can not imagine what people saw in one of his drawings, except of course its taking a giant Caddy And even that is derived I bet he saw a few minutes earlier or clays at visit Bill Mitchell and the GM studios in Detroit.
But why Mitchell fawn over him and call him Maestro Hmmm And I hear Mitchell bought two new Pininfarinas almost every year in Italy and had set up prominently in the Design Center I guess he wanted its designers show how not to do it, and be truly original.
Sorry, Paul, I can not tell if you're being honest or snarkastic here, it's probably because Pininfarina and Giugiaro and Bertone are so widely lionised and place free of criticism, let alone criticism, because everyone knows that the Italian cars and designs are awesome and perfect and sexy nature and each is simply unique and original as a special snowflake My failure to toe the line here in DC collected just SpitBack Whatever my tastes are well off the bell curve and I admit, but it doesn t mean I'm going to stop going meh yuck and whenever my reaction.
There's no way I'm going to launch into a defense or criticism of PF here in a comment that I had intended to do a series or great article on the subject for years, but it is a bit difficult.
Yes, there is room for criticism because it is for any man, but on the other hand, it was by far the most influential designer of the 40s, 50s and early 60s mid After that, he really originally wasn t is conceived, we have to determine even if we re criticize his own work of PF, or the work of his great enterprise after a while.
I understand the impulse not to toe a line is certainly not here that I'm a fan, but not a sidekick PF But I also skepticism about any big dissing any designer, I am happy to analyze and to discuss any specific PF design, but I can not begin to answer your great feelings on the subject, which come in more than skepticism for itself rather than a proper analysis.
What you designers designs like The reason I ask is because almost inevitably, I will be able to make a link back to PF He is the godfather of post-war design, and almost all cars designed for this period carries a little or more of its DNA.
It's a very common chauvinistic attitude in the American designers; just read a few, and it is mostly on the original and brilliant way they were, I'm happy to give credit where it is due.
But as I said, all the design studios of the United States studying all new models of PF and other Italians the minute they were pictures of them, or see it in the flesh The degree of originality is often deeply overplayed.
And yes, PF recycled drawings too How many creative originality isa to have, I can recognize a piece of Mozart, Bach and Beethoven in the first notes How were original.
The reality is that most humans have hopefully a big picture of the story of the song concept original idea of the world is something that comes from the fiber of who they are once s out, everything is the now mostly just a variation on this theme, with influences by externalities as in other conceptions of life and experience is not quite a lot of original creativity in this case, but s PF is greater than about other s.
I particular ax to grind against FP, I'm not particularly interested in growing skepticism for itself It's just that I find damn little attractive designs Pininfarina It doesn t mean they're bad or unworthy or anything else, just I usually means t like them, I will say that I find even less attractive DESIGNS Giugiaro and Bertone, s but as far as I'll go.
As someone born and raised in the land of the free and home of the brave not to mention the home galaxy s and French Car Impala got their reputation because their extreme oddity deserved I got your- a-Pee-on cars, and the only one I liked was my Volvo 245 Being in the shipping biz for 28 years, working on Volvo Penta engines and readers, might make me a little biased but in the end day, just give me a fucking Ford problem solved, money saved I add a side note, the only French car I ever drove was my bosses in 1987 Renault 5 turbo2 roller skating funnest I've ever leads, and being 19 at the time, I did not know how uncommon these cars were devoured According motor, only 200 were imported under the radar.
The parents of your friends have purchased a new 74,504 with automatic gas and electric windows ac ps The same paint and interior like the example shown, the less gray 505 seats in this car a deep maroon with beige interior looked nice in this color the doors slam like a bank vault, the velvet seats were super cushy and comfortable, and the car had a very smooth ride never led, but mounted front and rear seats very impressive back seat, sitting top and plenty of room.
They kept low miles, had for about 10 years, I doubt he had more than 70k miles on it at the end, he always looks great all the time they were the owners His mom said power steering and transmission both had problems, and I think the AC was INOP for the last two years very low power, very slow, but he is appealing his mother was German, but the Peugeot was his car, his French father and he drove a diesel rabbit holiday family car was a 63 Suburban, they kept to 86.
So much for all the accessories and emissions quality problems in American form, the basic car was very nice and well built.
Peugeot is limited, it seems engine size Even when the 505 came out in 1980 with FI and 5 sp, the car took 13 seconds to 60 This is according to RT around the car 1986 NA 505 moved to a 120hp Simca-based 2 2 6 decent line built off the four ala 164E Volvo would have transformed the car.
The safety valve Douvrin 2 8L V6 was available, but I do not know if it was his introduction I do not know that the subscription rates on this point was, if I knew a few MB W123 owners at the time who said they preferred the diesel versions of the 280.
It is basically right little pushrod hemi-head four had reached the limits of its development as it was 35 years in 1980, it is not surprising that he was still exceptionally smooth running of four, but its performance number slipped as cars have become bigger and heavier.
The V6 was installed in the 505 late in his life, but the 2 2 Simca Talbot four supplanted Peugeot 2 0, and was available as a turbo, which was quite a strong runner.
Can not remember where I saw it, but I feel that the normally aspirated 2-liter SOHC four 2 also shared with some Renaults was an engine and the turbo four Simca Talbot was another Supposedly the Simca Talbot engine turbo got ed because he had a rigid block.
Absolutely right; I sometimes forget that the 505 had three different gas ovens used in this SACT Douvrin four was a co-development by Peugeot and Renault, and came in 1995, 2165 cc versions of the Simca-type 180 engine 2165 cc, and n has been used as a turbo engine for the reasons you stated.
It is interesting to note the Carlin was replaced in Africa by Japanese cars did not, African countries import thousands of 4WDs Japanese used very cheap and therefore cars on price and easy availability of 504has not lost reliability that my BIL noticed a tour in Tanzania, Botswana and Namibia other interesting places without paved roads in the past year lease of Japanese cars and 4x4s sEEN are broken on a regular basis, they are very cheap but to buy in New Zealand many lemons are exported from the right.
I must be honest, I do not see the influence in this Mercedes Benz 504 If you are speaking from the standpoint of reliability, I agree with you, but I do not see anything remotely Mercedes Benz as in the design, I think it's the sloping trunk lid that makes me, this design feature remember what a compact US under 70s or early 80s look like rather than anything coming Stuttgart think the theme of bustleback, only less obvious.
I never said that the design style was influenced by 504 Mercedes It wasn t obviously.
The French term Mercedes was invented because Peugeot has played a similar role in France as Mercedes has made Germany strong builder, sedan RWD, with a decidedly conservative appearance unlike Citroen, etc. And on the European market, the Peugeots were often the most direct competitors but cheaper to Mercedes for people who wanted.
I thought the 504 sedans sought perfect except that droopy tail In this case, I took a nice Italian on quirky French day at least the cars still seemed well until 1974, when those terrible black bumpers 5 mph were nailed but even Mercedes had awful ugly bumper 5 mph in those days, but the 70, there was an industrial epidemic replace the formerly robust metal with thin plastic on almost everything, not just the French car, I remember in '77, a friend had a 71 wheel drive Peugeot 304 Loved sedan the way, the seats and the trunk without style Droopy hated mushy shift and work on the car with the engine on the side and the belt that goes around corners to drive the fan that I believe, still had an electric fan clutch, it left me wondering why didn t they just go with an electric fan he Ega LEMENT is hard to work on, including when we went to replace a rotten fuel pipe and the plastic nipple on the cover of the broken fuel pump immediately that something should have been made of metal, but was thin plastic and it took over a week to get the part we have set, but eventually the clutch went, my friend and emptied the car, like the time he was rusting so bad, the clutch would be five cost more than the car was worth another friend had a 74 504, and in fact that it lasted well in some time in the 80s, but they had the car for most of their property in Spokane, Washington, where he doesn t get that hot and they salt the roads t While the car held up OK Between 1977 and 1991, I had 3 early 70 90 super Audi, two cars and car parts sedan now, these cars are having Does not paragons of reliability In fact, they were probably the most trouble-prone vehicle I have ever owned, but I loved the performance of the cars, driving, handling, fuel economy and cargo space, design FWD was relatively easy to work with and through the 80s, the parties were still macadamia, even the Audi and the fuel pump was all metal and never gave me a problem so I kept it to go until finally dried up supplies parts about 1990 this year I got my first Japanese vehicle 87 Isuzu pickup the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned Don t know if I could have kept going a Peugeot as long in those days before the Internet there a few years ago, I was watching a 71 Saab 9-5 wagon that needed TLC I thought these cars had a cult and parts wouldn t be hard to find, even with the Inte rnet, it was very difficult, if not impossible, so I switched, I wonder how difficult it is today, get parts for Peugeot in the United States.
Excellent writing on a car that was misunderstood most of the time in this country, I always thought he was quite attractive, except for the unfortunate back treatment.
Maybe it's a little presumptuous for me to try to improve the work of Pininfarina, but I submit that these two 505-ish if photochops for discussion and dissection.
The most pleasant time of drooping tail was not a success, but it did lend a certain character to 504 of the design, and was not a total failure, or I think I understand what they trying to do with the static, but just doesn t quite make from a number of angles.
604 was essentially a re-body 504, from which similar proportions.
The best part of the final real style has been done by the owner with the global warming is not cool sticker.
When I was growing up in early 1970 in Silicon Valley, I always thought Peugeots as more French than the Volvo Mercedes french It may be because Mercedes and BMW seemed to appeal to sellers, bankers and other Spivs attached to any of 'hi-tech business Peugeots seemed to attract the same buyers that Swedish cars have made college instructors, engineers and other professionals guys who wanted to show a little, but not too much which may have led to the fall of Peugeot; German car buyers may not have known much of their cars, but their jobs required them to put on a good show at any time, they may have been more willing to spend time and money to take care of their wheels as the Peugeot owners have done.
Interesting write a great car and as a preferred convertible.
Paul refers to as the French Peugeot Mercedes; My opinion would be, for this period and in the UK at least, that was the French Peugeot Volvo or even a French Rover Step prices and lack of overlap Pug model ranges and MB separated them but the European market and in particular the German position was different Mercedes UK, MB was unashamedly a luxury brand, not a taxi.
The rear end is an acquired taste and Landcrab version is even more evident on the Mk1 without fins rather twee original BMC added.
Roger, my article makes clear, it was not me who invented the t Mercedes French expression, it was popularized by the Germans, who appreciated as an alternative to Mercedes is quite the compliment, coming from them, as you probably know.
I'm the one in the group who liked before, liked the design of the end of the tail, loved everything I spent 79 504D my two complaints were slow as molasses and that the trunk was eaten by rust so I can put my whole hand inside and pull something while keeping still I did love locked the car although the last time I could never get into one was in 2000, I lived in Cairo and every taxi at the time was a 504.
Apparently, 504 organizations were particularly poorly in crash tests This sounds pretty scary to me.
I always wanted a 505 turbo, but perhaps it was just as well that I've never had one.
The only thing that scares me to own a Peugeot technical penchant for using gears BRASS differential I'm not quite sure what a deceased friend told me about this habit So, I can not confirm or deny can anyone here.
Peugeot line engineering from 201 to over 404, was to use the worm wheel rear axles with a bronze crown wheel and pinion, which requires the industrial castor oil as incorrect lubricant oils proper attack bronze worm drive axles have a ratio of mass reduction with fewer moving parts, providing a lower center of gravity and allowed a lower roomier inside space rear floor, but unfortunately undermined more power than the hypoid axles frequent oil change intervals must be respected too, but often overlooked is the safest to treat the oil change yourself and avoid taking these Peugeots a garage.
1976 Classic curbside Peugeot 504 and a Mercedes COTY s French Continent is a continent, classic, 1976 Peugeot.